Noodles
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« on: July 31, 2011, 01:26:31 AM » |
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A Catholic utterance:
'Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science, and philosophy.
One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there was no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the Gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the Gospel in latter days." '
Shorty, God does not deny any blessings to any of His children. Even if they live and die without ever having heard of or met anyone with His authority we are performing the necessary ordinances required for salvation, like baptism, for them by proxy in our temples. We are bringing the entire human race to Christ both alive and dead.
The source is Orson F. Whitney’s autobiography, Through Memory’s Halls: The Life Story of Orson F. Whitney, as Told by Himself (Independence, MO: Zion’s Printing and Publishing Company, 1930), 222-23.
The Catholic theologian’s name is John M. Reiner.
This stance predates the Vatican II counter-reformation and may not reflect general Catholic sentiment.
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abyssal
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 06:04:32 PM » |
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if you are going to be a christian just be catholic.. all other denominations are just cheap imitations IMHO
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Solar
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2011, 03:20:04 PM » |
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I vote for Catholic
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shorty
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 01:27:34 PM » |
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Do you really think God is such a bureaucrat that he would deny blessings to certain of his children because they don't happen to know someone with 'authority'?
Billions of people have lived on this earth without leaving a name behind for Mormons to baptize by proxy. There are only a couple million Mormons who actually do baptisms for the dead and they could never do all of them even if they knew the actual names.
God really doesn't take your ordinances as seriously as you do. Your self importance is astounding.
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Eric_L_K
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 02:02:23 PM » |
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That is *nothing* but a faith promoting story for Mormons, it is almost as bad and made up as that one about Einstein.
Catholics never say that Mormons have a chance at authority (except in made up stories, of course). Why in the world would a Catholic come to preach at the Mormon captial anyway???
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Susanna_LIVES
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 09:09:16 PM » |
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excerpt from Rome's Challenge:
in the present article we propose to investigate carefully a new (and the last) class of proof assumed to convince the Biblical Christan that God had substituted Sunday for Saturday for His worship in the new law, and that the divine will is to be found recorded by the Holy Ghost in apostilic writings.
We are informed that this radical change has found expression, over and over again, in a series of texts in which expression, "the day of the Lord," or the Lord's day." is to be found
The class of texts in the NT, under the title"Sabbath" numbering sixty-one in the Gospels, Acts and Epsitles; and the second class in which "the first day of the week." or Sunday, having been critically examined (the latter class numbering nine [eight]; and having been found not to afford the slightest clue to a change of will on the part of God as to His day of worship by man, we now proceed to examine the third and last class of texts relied on to save the Biblical system from the arraigment of seeking to palm off on the world, in the name of God, a decree for which there is not, the slightest warrant or authority from their teacher, the Bible.
another excerpt pg. 11 of Rome's Challenge
But alas! we are once mored doomed to disappointment. Nine times do we find the Sabbath referred to in the Acts, but it is the Saturday (the old Sabbath). Should our readers desire the proof, we refer them to chapter & verse 15:21; again Acts 16:13, 17:2; 18:4 "And he [Paul] reasoned to the synogague every Sabbath, and pursuaded the Jews and the Greeks." Thus the Sabbath (Saturday) from Genesis to Revelation!!! Thus it is impossible to find in the New Testament the slightest interference by the Saviour or His apostles with the Original Sabbath, but on the contrary, an entire acquiescence in the original arrangement; nay, a plenary indorsement by Him, whilst living; and an unvaried, active participation in the keeping of that day and no other by the apostles, for thirty years after His death, as the Acts of the Apostles has abundantly testified to us.
Hence the conclusion is inevitable; viz.,
****that of those who follow the Bible as their guide, the Israelites and Seventh Day Adventists have the exclusive weight of evdience on their side, whilst the Biblical Protestant has not a word in self defense for his substitution of Sunday for Saturday. More anon.
there is plenty more of course, perhaps google for "Romes Challenge"
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tagboy
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 09:05:52 AM » |
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Many religions claim God talked to their prophets. People follow their leaders because they know no better and can't think for themselves.
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Keith
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 02:12:29 PM » |
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The real servants of God are the ones serving the same God- Moses,David,Solomon,Job,Lot,Abraham, etc served--( Fact of reality-- A single being mono God the israelites served--) psalm 83:18-- Same God Jesus taught-- John 17: 1-6 Jesus said- the Father is the only true God-Paul taught-- 1 Corinthians 8:6- There is one God to all, the Father. Catholocism translators altered Gods word to fit their council teachings.
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Convinced
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 08:48:42 AM » |
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The one which the Holy Spirit speaks through. Sometimes we need to remember that we all have the same adversary. Seeking the truth may have many paths, but there is only one way to the Spiritual Father. Truly , this is a question you would ask in prayer, not necessarily of people. : )
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Horsense
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2011, 12:59:36 PM » |
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Jesus Christ is King-Priest of God's heavenly kingdom government.
He chose some of the faithful from among mankind to rule alongside him in the heavens, over the vast majority of humans who remain assigned to live forever on the earth, as originally intended.
Whatever group is actually teaching the truths of God's Word --rather than man-made / pagan ideas-- is the group that has the backing of our Creator.
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Chi_girl
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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 10:49:13 PM » |
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Sorry -- I don't believe a word of that story. There is NO WAY a Catholic priest would 1) insult Mormons by calling them "ignoramuses" or 2) say that Mormons might be right. Uh uh. Ridiculous.
Christ said to the apostle Peter (his name means "stone" in Greek): "On this rock I build my church." If you believe that God is all-knowing, it make no sense whatsoever to believe that 1800 years later he essentially said to Joseph Smith: "Oops, I goofed. Start a new church."
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Linda
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2011, 02:44:15 AM » |
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I would certainly listen to that learned man and base my beliefs on what he said.
Don't pay any attention to God., what does He know about religion?
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phrog
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 05:44:59 AM » |
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since the bible itself both predicts and chronicles a falling away and loss of this authority...I'm gonna' go w/the LDS.
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Miss_Dementia
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2011, 11:14:36 AM » |
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Unless you are asking those dead people if they want to be LDS posthumously then it is spiritual assault and absolutely reprehensible behavior. Should I run about, "converting" dead Mormons back to the original, tribal, pre-christian faith of their ancestors? Of course not. That would make me a douchebag. The LDS church should behave at least as well as we Heathenfolk if they want to be able to claim ANY morality at all. Unfortunately, it would seem too many are more concerned with the numbers of those of their faith they can claim rather than the individual in question's actual spiritual development on their particular path. Such dishonorable behavior and short-sightedness should not be tolerated by anyone, human or divine.
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imacatholic2
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 04:27:08 PM » |
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"A member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle"
+ I was always told that non-Latter-day Saints could not enter the Tabernacle or Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and non-LDS parents of people marrying Latter-day Saints could not even attend the wedding. If this is true then why was a Catholic permitted to speak?
+ Why is the name of the "member of the Roman Catholic Church" or the date of the "conversation" never mentioned? I am sure if he was an ordained minister of the Church then his title would have been used. "A member" could have been any of over one billion people in the world.
With love in Christ.
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